Baba Brinkman (Canadian) and Dizraeli (British) converge to become the hip-hop duo known as Mud Sun. They have established themselves as revolutionaries of rap music. Their first collaborative album Mine the Gap was a politically conscious and sharp production.

By: Isabel Lau (Vancouver Correspondent - Canada)

July 27, 2008 

Baba Brinkman (Canadian) and Dizraeli (British) converge to become the hip-hop duo known as Mud Sun. They have established themselves as revolutionaries of rap music. Their first collaborative album Mine the Gap was a politically conscious and sharp production. Mud Sun's latest EP, now available for download by LitFuse Records, is titled The Rebel Cell and also proves to be nothing less than ingenious.

Aside from their individual recording endeavors, Brinkman and Dizraeli pair up to perform The Rebel Cell at the Edinburgh Fringe starting July 30^th until August 25^th. The act is an intellectual rap battle of ideologies that touches upon human rights, global capitalism and terrorism. Sound too cerebral to be wildly entertaining? Think twice: both Brinkman and Dizraeli have won numerous awards and reviews for their racy rhyming skills. The Rebel Cell is intriguingly described as "8-mile meets Orwell's 1984." With an honours B.A and an M.A in Medieval and Renaissance English Literature, Brinkman shows that a scholarly hat can stylishly work with hip hop.  In the midst of recording and writing The Rebel Cell as well as heading his own record label, Baba Brinkman had the time to enlighten us with the sources of his inspiration.   

A ‘n' E Vibe (Isabel Lau): What is the story behind your duo's group name, Mud Sun?
Baba Brinkman: We decided to form a group back in July last year when we recorded most of the Mine the Gap EP in London, but it took us a few months to find the right name.  We were looking for something that represented the yin yang dynamic that we have, of opposites combining to create a greater synthesis.  We also found out that we got accepted to perform at some big summer music festivals like Sunrise and Glastonbury, so Mud Sun was the perfect name, since that's what English music festivals are all about, mud and sun.  Plus it represents our dynamic very well, earthly and celestial, darkness and light, griminess and purity.

Isabel Lau: How did you and Dizraeli get together? What do you both uniquely bring to the Mud Sun mix?
Baba Brinkman: We met at a spoken word event at the Brighton Fringe in 2005, where we both performed, and afterwards we both were pretty impressed with the other guy's skills, so we tried writing a song together.  Then we worked on a bunch of songs together in 2006, three of which ended up on my album Lit-Hop which came out that year.  We figured we were working so well together that we might as well form a group.  I think the dynamic works because we balance each other's styles out pretty nicely, with flows that are quite different in terms of delivery but with a similar standard of writing and wordplay, and a similar sense of humour.   

We also play off each other pretty nicely when it comes to having debates and representing opposite sides of an issue.  Our new album and show The Rebel Cell turns a lot of our disagreements about politics and society and art into material for the various songs and chapters.  It's pretty rare to find someone you can argue with passionately and still completely respect at the end of the day, and whose views you appreciate even when you don't agree with them.  That's where Mud Sun gets its synergy from.

Isabel Lau: You are an academically accomplished rap artist which imbues your lyrics with a refreshing and often political stance. Can you tell us more about Lit-Hop?
Baba Brinkman: Lit-Hop to me is first and foremost an acknowledgement that the qualities that define great literature - the depth, irony, technical mastery, figurative language, and ability to creatively interpret and interact with the culture that produces it - are also fully present in rap music.  So to a certain degree, I'd say all hip-hop is lit-hop, in so far as all rap is poetry.  But then, I wouldn't argue that all poetry necessarily qualifies as literature, except in the widest possible sense, so lit-hop is a matter of degree, with some artists exhibiting more descriptive and narrative depth than others.  But it's definitely not a simplistic matter of mainstream vs underground or anything like that.  Some underground hip-hop is nothing but a pack of clichés and some mainstream rap is pure genius, so it's really down to the opinions of critics and fans responding to individual artists.  But then, that relationship is the same reason we acknowledge Shakespeare and Cervantes and Dylan Thomas as brilliant writers as well.   

The term "Lit-hop" is also a simple way of recognizing that rap is a very powerful form of oral poetry, and that the roots of what we know as literature also lie in oral poetry and storytelling, so rap is a resurrection of the spirit of poetry, and in a way is even more literary than literature, because it lets artists/writers connect directly with their audience. 

Isabel Lau: You have referenced Mud Sun as "the sound of hip-hop evolving". What is your take on the hip-hop music industry at present?
Baba Brinkman: Well, as an industry it's experiencing some growing pains, but that's an economic reality that's tied to the rise of a new technology, i.e. music downloading.  Right now artists are looking back on the 90s as a golden age when artists could sell millions of CDs, which is now very rare.  It's hard to imagine any record going twelve times platinum now.  But new technologies (vinyl, 8-tracks, tapes, CDs, MiniDiscs, iPods, etc) have always disrupted the status quo and the industry has always adapted and found a way to reward creativity, and I'm confident that the internet will be no different.  I think there has never been a more inspiring time for rap, simply because of the amount of entrepreneurialism that's out there.  Every few days I get put on to a new group that I'm totally impressed with that seemingly comes out of nowhere, and thanks to myspace anyone can reach an audience from anywhere, if they have something unique to offer.   

It's also never been so affordable to make a great record, thanks to digital recording and new software.  The accessibility of the internet and cheap recording gear makes the market exponentially more competitive, with so many new artists out there diving into the talent pool (I think the calibre of many relatively unknown artists today is such that they would have been huge if they came out that strong ten years ago).  But this just puts pressure on artists to think outside the box and find new ways to expand their audience and give people a new experience that both fulfills and challenges their expectations.  It's the same with natural selection: periods of explosive growth are also periods of intense competition and diversification.  So Mud Sun is one of those groups that is evolving into something that is both hip-hop and also something more; incorporating more complex narratives and comedy and other elements.  The danger is always in overspecialization, however.  Rap is speciating into new corners of society, but not every niche will be equally fertile; some will dry up.  Mud Sun is evolving into a niche that rap hasn't traditionally inhabited, but whether or not this will allow us to thrive remains to be seen.  I feel good about it though. 

Isabel Lau: What was in your tape deck/CD player while you were growing up?
Baba Brinkman: I've had rap on my headphones since I was old enough to choose my own music, which is to say around nine or ten years old.  First it was Run DMC, Slick Rick, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, Beastie Boys, Ice T, Public Enemy, etc.  Then a few years later it was Snoop and Dre and the Dogg Pound, Wu Tang Clan, Nas, Notorious B.I.G. & KRS One.  I had the good fortune to witness hip-hop's accelerated growth, but for most of that time I was listening as a fan rather than as an MC.  It was listening to Big Pun in 1998 that actually got me writing though.

Isabel Lau: You've also performed at various academic institutions, ranging from Harvard to public high schools. How was the audience reception to your music at these venues?
Baba Brinkman: Well, all of the academic shows I've done were pretty much centered around my "Rap Canterbury Tales" adaptation, and the response to that has been really positive.  But I think people were really ready for the ideas behind the show and the concept of Lit-Hop, and of course Geoffrey Chaucer gets a lot of the credit, because the stories were already pretty funny.

Isabel Lau: The track "Power Trip" is a funny and yet serious commentary on Stephen Harper's strategy (or lack thereof) for climate change. Tell us about the origins of your environmental awareness.
Baba Brinkman: I grew up in a very environmentalist family.  Both of my parents were in the reforestation business and saw planting trees as both an economic opportunity and as a contribution to society and to the planet.  My mom wrote her MBA thesis on the science of climate change back in 1992, so it's definitely in my blood.  But Stephen Harper is just an aberration, someone who I wouldn't trust with my dry cleaning never mind the environmental and economic stewardship of my country.  I'm embarrassed for Canada, especially with the backsliding on climate change internationally.  Public advocacy groups like AAVAZ.org should not have to be shaming Canada for inaction; we should be leading the charge.  Now, imagine if next year we have Barack Obama and Stephane Dion as the leaders of the USA and Canada; one small step for the voting public, one giant leap for mankind. 

Isabel Lau: Being BC born and raised, what made you decide to venture to the UK?
Baba Brinkman: Two things: population density and literary romanticism.  The population density makes it a lot more feasible to tour here without spending days on end traveling, and as for the romanticism, I came here as a pilgrim seeking the wellspring of inspiration that produced the greatest poetry in history.  And when I got here, I found an overwhelmingly positive response to the kind of performance I was doing, so I kept coming back.  Don't be surprised if I move here permanently before too long...

Isabel Lau: Have you observed any distinctions or parallels between North American and British hip-hop culture?
Baba Brinkman: At its core it's the same, since British hip-hop is very much influenced by American hip-hop.  Rappers here understand hip-hop culture inside out and can quote rappers as well as any hip-hop heads I know, and hip-hop culture was an American invention.  But on the other hand, the accents and the ironic sense of humour make it impossible for British artist to take themselves as seriously as American (and Canadian) artists do.  So as a result the expression becomes much more focused on wordplay and cleverness and humour and much less a constant torrent of "I'm so tough" posturing.  I feel like I discovered a secret garden of hip-hop here in Britain.  It was exactly how I wanted hip-hop to be, but never believed it could be, until I came here.  It was also exactly the kind of hip-hop I wanted to make, more Jonathan Swift than Ernest Hemingway. 

Isabel Lau: Your "Seven Veils" single is certainly a divergence away from some of the typically chauvinistic hip-hop songs about women out there. Aside from being an instrumentally awesome track, it also provides some critical insight into "pole-dancing" that conveys a sense of new age feminist ideals. Tell us about your influence and insight for this. 
Baba Brinkman: Well, the inspiration for this song came from a debate I heard on NPR radio in the States, where a radical feminist was arguing that burlesque and pole dancing and such were all examples of the male objectification of women insinuating itself into the female psyche so insidiously that women actually believed they were enjoying themselves.  I found this argument fantastically condescending, and so did the liberal feminist on the program, who was arguing that woman were finally getting to express their sexuality on their own terms without having men dictate their roles to them.  And as a man who appreciates the spectacle of naked women who are genuinely enjoying the display, I thought I should weigh in on this debate (and also mine it for comedy). 

But that's an important distinction to make, because I really don't see a lot of professional strippers and prostitutes taking a great deal of enjoyment in their work, at least not to the extent that they would be happy to continue without pay.  Burlesque dancers, on the other hand, genuinely seem to be happy to do it for the love, like many other performance artists, and if they get paid then all the better, but it certainly doesn't seem exploitative to me in the same way.  Plus Vancouver has become something of an international Burlesque Mecca and lots of those girls are my friends and I find them inspiring, so I decided to defend their honour against the puritan attacks of radical feminism.  It was the chivalric thing to do.

Isabel Lau: Do you have many other hip-hop interests besides music, such as graffiti or breakdancing?
Baba Brinkman: I'm a big fan of both, but sadly my talents are limited to just one of the original four elements.  I find a lot of inspiration in hip-hop's other expressions though, but for me it's all about the words.

Isabel Lau: You and Dizraeli have plenty of theatrical experience. What can the audience expect from one of your shows?
Baba Brinkman: Just expect to have your genre boundaries smashed down.  You won't know if it's theatre or rap or spoken word or written or improvised, all you'll know is it's clever and funny and thought-provoking.  My favourite thing after shows is when hip-hop heads go: "damn, that was deep, I never liked theatre but I'm going to give it another chance" and middle-aged college graduates go: "by jove, I always thought rap was fairly mindless, but if that was rap then maybe I'll give it another listen."

Isabel Lau: You also have a keen ear for discovering amazing new talent, such as Aaron Ross (whose fantastic album made me finally sign up for itunes in order to purchase it). What is the feel and philosophy behind LitFuse Records?
Baba Brinkman: Lit Fuse Records is music with depth, depth of feeling, like Aaron's song-writing abilities and lyrics, and depth of meaning, like Mud Sun's political stories and wordplay.  I'm all about literary fusion, so the name came pretty naturally, but it's also just a way for me to discover artists that I think are going to blow up, and help them take that next step.  That's what I thought when I first heard Aaron and that's what I thought when I first heard Dizraeli, so I just want to keep those sparks flying.

Isabel Lau: Touring, theater, a burgeoning record label, a published book and an album at least once a year. What fuels this productive frenzy? How do you keep it all together and manage not to stumble at least once during your intricate freestyles?
Baba Brinkman: Two questions, but one answer will suffice: idea surpluses.  I have more ideas for songs, shows, books, albums, lyrics, projects, etc, than I have time to execute, but I can't stand letting them collect dust, so I just try to keep my output as high as possible and keep things moving.  As for freestyling, that just takes practice.  And I have been known to stumble occasionally.  The trick is not to let it discourage you, recover fast, and just keep flowing. 

Isabel Lau: What's next for Mud Sun?
Baba Brinkman: We just spent the past few months writing and rehearsing a new show called The Rebel Cell that we're taking to the Edinburgh Fringe for August.  We're performing 27 shows at the festival, every night at 5:40 at the Pleasance Dome starting on July 30^th.  We also just finished recording The Rebel Cell as a full-length 20-track LP, and that will be ready to release at the end of July to coincide with the Fringe.  It's a storytelling concept album about an anti-capitalist dissident who is arrested and charged as a terrorist, and it takes place in a dystopian future England, in 2013.  There's really nothing like it out there in terms of hip-hop records I don't think, but whether it hits or not remains to be seen.  I think it's dope though.  Look for it on www.babasword.com.

Read the A 'n' E Vibe review of Mine The Gap.